Entretien avec Abdou Karim Fall, artiste peintre à saint Louis du Sénégal. Exposition « Saint Louis, cité magique », à partir du 25 juin 2010 à la Galerie Arte, DAKAR

A l’heure où s’achève brillamment l’édition 2010 de la Biennale de Dakar, et que les rues de la capitale se vident de leurs parures, on se sentirait presque démunis, et en demande d’un peu plus à voir encore. Alors en apprenant que la galerie Arte, met à l’honneur un jeune artiste Saint Louisien remarqué pendant le off de l’institut français de Saint Louis, on se rassure et se délecte à l’idée de savourer encore un peu le parfum de l’art contemporain.

Abdou Karim Fall, puisque c’est de lui qu’il s’agit n’est pas tout à fait un inconnu pour ceux qui s’intéressent à la création plastique. Elève de Baye Mouké Traoré, ce jeune artiste à été entre autres, le représentant de la région de Saint Louis au FESNAC de 2003 (Festival national des Arts et de la Culture) et  primé lors de la première édition du Prix de la Fondation Cuomo Monte Carlo en 2009. Lissier de formation, il s’est fait reconnaitre et apprécié pour sa technique très particulière, dans laquelle il allie tissage et utilisation de matériaux de récupération. Adoptant d’abord des thèmes abstraits, il se concentre sur l’évolution de sa technique et travaille en corps à corps avec sa toile, qu’il construit comme un architecte en intégrant des perspectives d’un nouveau jour, née du relief d’un tissage ou de l’intégration de tuyaux à même la toile. Mais loin d’utiliser le poncif de la récupération,  Abdou Karim Fall tend à faire la fonction première des matériaux utilisés qui deviennent partie intégrante de la toile et de son message. Car chez ce jeune artiste originaire du quartier des pécheurs de Saint Louis, l’art est porteur de messages, et doit se faire comprendre du plus grand nombre. C’est d’ailleurs aussi pour cela que Fall à commencer à réintégrer la figuration, et les personnages dans son travail. « Lorsque je suis trop abstrait les gens ne comprennent  pas mon travail, alors j’ai poursuivi mes recherches et réintroduit peu à peu des personnages ». Pour mieux partager sa vision des choses, et son désir du vivre ensemble il traite ainsi  de thèmes comme la paix entre le Sénégal et la Mauritanie ou encore, comme c’est le cas dans cette exposition, de l’héritage architectural de sa ville Saint Louis. C’est en effet pour rendre hommage à sa ville natale, qui célèbre ses 350 ans cette année, qu’ Abdou  Karim Fall a décidé de travailler à une trentaine d’½uvres réalisées dans un dégradé de l’ocre au blanc et axées sur les bâtiments de la ville. Reprenant les principaux monuments de la vieille Ndar, ou les détails marquants d’un pont ou d’une fenêtre, il dresse le panorama non exhaustif d’un trésor architectural laissé à l’abandon et qu’il aura mis plus de quatre années à reproduire. Pour lui cet hommage à Saint Louis, qu’il intitule Sauvons le patrimoine, est un véritable manifeste de lutte contre l’effritement du patrimoine de  cette cité qui s’étiole aujourd’hui comme peau de chagrin. Pour Fall, ce passé colonial fait partie de l’histoire de Saint Louis et mérite lui aussi une renaissance. C’est pourquoi en exposant au Musée du CRDS de Saint Louis d’abord (du 6 au 20 Avril 2010) puis à la Galerie Arte à Dakar (à partir du 25 juin 2010) ensuite il entend sensibiliser  la population  et montrer la beauté de sa région pour parler de son histoire aux riverains et aux nationaux et pourquoi pas à l’international si l’occasion lui est donné de faire une exposition itinérante dans le reste du monde. La première exposition de Saint Louis a porté ses fruits car malgré l’indifférence des autorités, Abdou Karim  Fall, soutenu  par la presse régionale, le CRDS et le syndicat d’initiative de Saint Louis, a su utiliser son propre réseau  et sa force de persuasion pour faire appel aux saint Louisens qui  sont venus en nombres apprécier et applaudir ce travail de maitre. Gageons que l’exposition de la capitale, ré intitulée pour l’occasion « Saint Louis, cité magique », connaitra le même succès. Car ce jeune artiste nous donne aujourd’hui une leçon d’esthétique et de savoir vivre, en nous rappelant que nos vieilles pierres portent en elles la mémoire de notre humanité.

Fodé et Zoé .

Interview of Wiz Kudowor,painter, during his exhibition entitled Wizz’recents works  (Nubuke Foundation in Accra, from March 23th to April 30^th).

Few days after the opening of his exhibition, we met the artist in the Nubuke Foundation, to ask him some questions about his relationship toward his public.

Do you think that the question of the public can affect the work of artists, and if yes how ?
I’m not usually familiar with what others people think. I’ll tell you what I think on the effects of the public. As an artist, the Public has very little effect on me. The works I do comes from me and I expect that it would have an effect on the public, not other we are. But as I said it for fun, it’s true that a lot of the artists in Accra, or preferring in Ghana, (I know little about Ghana and of course  Nigeria where I traveled a lot), so a lot of artists do their work because they think the public will appreciate that. This is what the public will appreciate so they do that for the public. Now, I ‘ve travelled to Togo, Benin, Ivory Coast sometimes and some of the artists has interrupted me and to tell “ oh this is the kind of works the foreigners, and the French like so  we do this for them”. In my case no, the work I do is for me, this is what I like to do, and so that’s what I do, and I expect this would  have an effect on the public, if it doesn’t, then I feel like an artist and that’s the way I look at myself.

It’s not you case but how explained you the fact that some artists in Ghana tries to please the market and especially the occidental market, is there a special reason?

No that what I’ m saying, it is not. They are some artists, especially the youngest, they do it for that matter :  they want to impress the public so that they can sell their works, it happens, even if it’s not my case. It’s a survival thing if you ask me, they need to survive.  They need to be able to sell, but I don’t think that it’s always the case that what the public like is what they do actually. They don’t even look at it because, It’s not exciting anymore, it doesn’t reflect anything from the artist himself, they doing something outside of themselves just to please the public and they are not able to sell that, even if they did like that to please the public, you see. But it happens because they have to sell so that they can survive, and in the end some of them gradually build up and try to do their own thing even if they still want to please the public too. This is one of the difficulties of being an artist.  You have to find a fine balance between trying to please the public, by making what you think the public will like and also try to be yourself, this is a very difficult situation to behave.  What happens is that most people are unable to move away from what can please the public. But we all have been in a situation where we have to do that kind of stuffs because we have to sell, it’s also the way to find yourself, but some people are never  able to move away from the fact they have to please the public but whatever what they did, it’s not them and this has no identity. But others move away from that and become themselves.  This is what I’ve done and now I want to share my work with the public which is different from trying to please the public. I want to share with somebody: you like it or you don’t like it, it doesn’t matter, I don’t expect you to like it. If you don’t want to buy, I’m fine, if you want to buy I’m also fine too, whatever, I’m happy to have done the work. This is the important thing. So yes, the public played a part in certain extend, even in the west, there are people who work for the public. They are famous sometimes but they do it for money they don’t struggle with art, they don’t find themselves in that struggle. They decided they want to make money with art, and so they do.  It’s a decision you have to take.

You have made many exhibitions abroad and what do you think about the Ghanaian artistic scene? Is is different from the others places?

In fact concerning the Ghanaian artistic scene… we don’t have an artistic scene,  because there are very few artistic activities that happen here, Ghanaian don’t have the high level of appreciation of art for instance contrary to Ivory Coast or Togo or Nigeria, where there is a higher level of appreciation. People who can afford to spend some money on Art rather spend their money on others places, because they cannot understand why they should spend it on art. There is a huge difference with others countries, For instance in Nigeria (let us speak about the English speaking countries). In Nigeria because they had a long history of appreciation of art, they have a long cultural history and develop that kind of appreciation which is lacking here in Ghana. Here people don’t know what to do with contemporary art. And this is difficult for the artists to pick up programs, or rule a lot of activities. For the opening of my exhibition in the Nubuke Fondation, it was different: people came because I have reached a point  where people  can accept that, yes, they wanted to come and see what I am doing. I’ haven’t done any exhibition here in Ghana for the last six years and so people, when I advertized that I was doing this show, wanted to come and see what is new. But usually it’s always the same people who came, and it’s always the expatriated people.

There are some famous artists in Ghana, and some of them are working abroad, what happen when they come back ?

They don’t even come back. Nobody’s known who they are anyway. If you mention a Ghanaian artist like El Anatsui, who works abroad, yeah they are known but only by their families and others artists and maybe the few people who collect artworks. So if they come here and make an exhibition they have to make an extra effort to get people to come and see it. I live here, I work here so that the reason why people come because they know about me. That’s the difference. The last exhibition at the Artist Alliance Gallery was about the expatriated artists, and because that the gallery put them together many people came because each of them bring his friend and family and the people who know him.

But the artists here in Ghana are struggling here by creating networks and have this awareness of the importance of being linked which is not the case in the French speaking countries..

I know a bit about Togo and Nigeria. Nigeria is big and artists come from various art schools over the country but they have set up organizations and they all belong to that organization. Indeed each college has its organization who identify its artists but all of them know the others organizations and they work together, that’s the difference between Nigeria and Ghana and also others places, because they set up these small small organizations, and they do things, they work together and invite others people too from others places. In Ghana we have few organizations like the FCA (Foundation for Contemporary Art) and most of the young artists belong to that. We started, it but unfortunately because I moved around a lot, I never having a part of it. The younger people have tried to fix it and set some activities, and they are quite well known for their activities. The other reason why it’s difficult for artists to come in Ghana is funding.  In Ghana, there is no funding for art even if in the last 3 years the European Union has bringing some funds to support contract activities but otherwise there is nothing. Government funding is not exiting. So it’s a big struggle for artists to try to organize activities for the public, even if you want to educate the public, it’s difficult.

But do you have a Ministry of Culture?

Yeah, there is a Commission of Culture, it’s not a Ministry but they don’t have enough funding themselves to support activities so… (Laughing). So we have activities like those of the Nubuke Foundation which is trying to raise awareness. These activities are to get some knowledge in Art for people, some education about that.

But Cultural Traditions are mainly promoted here, is it the same Commission which take in charge traditional things and the contemporary one?

Contemporary Art has no support at all. But for sure, they used to be on the same commission but now the Chieftry has it own Ministry only to promote traditional culture. Dance and Theater benefit of some supports but not the contemporary Art. Lot of people doesn’t want to make any effort to understand contemporary culture

To come back on your work, we see that you use a lot of traditional Ghanaian symbols and you revival them, is it well understood by the population, because we heard that the traditional background have not to be reinterpreted, it can be seen as a provocative thing ?

I use those symbols not because I want anybody to understand them. I used them as an artistic tool. I used them as a motif. So to me they have no special means but the symbols on their own, their meanings are not well known by people. But I use them because I like them, and  also because they come from here. When I started to use them in my work in 1984, people were already thinking it was over used so it’s wasn’t provocative at all to use them. They are there, you know, and I like to use it, you like it or you don’t like it, what else? It ‘just me, you know.  I don’t have any problem in using symbols and interpreting them in my own way.  It’s a question of color and balance, you know they have a meaning but I’m illiterate in that concerns, for me that’s the way you feel about it.  The work is about me. If it feels right for me so it’s good. But you actually when I have done a work, this doesn’t mean anything for me, I have to move on to a new work immediately to have that satisfaction of work, that’s why I don’t sell my works with a special prize. It doesn’t matter at all. For me I’m happy to what I’ve created, but  what matters is the process of the creation.

This will be the last question. Is this you who organize this exhibition and who made the scenography? How do you manage the works?.

Yes, I decided it, I put a work on the wall and if it doesn’t relate to the next work next to it, If it doesn’t make sense, and if I stand there and feel nothing, then I move it. That’s all the story. The colour…  I’ve tried to put the very recently works together, but it was poor, the feeling was poor, so I changed, to balance it, that’s the way I feel about the place, you know. I have to feel good. And if it’s feels right for me I hope people will be coming, Because if you don’t like it yourself,   don’t expect that another person will like it, that’s what I believe in.

Maybe you have question or things to add ?

No I said too much already, I said too much on my canvas ! I think I said a lot. You know I put a lot of myself in my works and then I think I don’t have to give anybody an explanation. All I expect is that people will see something and would make their own interpretations. I don’t want to voice out about it.. That’s what I think, if you look enough, you must see something. If you see something, it’s good, if you don’t see anything, it’s doesn’t mind. I like it when I ‘m standing there and heard people say “oh yes, look this is…” I like that, this is exciting.

Thank you Wiz, for all these answers.

Fodé and  Zoé

Wiz KUDOWOR: “Ce qui compte c’est le processus de création “

Entretien réalisé avec Wiz Kudowor, artiste peintre durant son exposition Wiz’recent works ( Nubuke Foundation, à Accra du 23 Mars au 30 Avril).

Quelques jours après le vernissage de son exposition, nous avons rencontré l’artiste à la Nubuke Foundation afin de l’interroger sur sa relation au public.

Pensez vous que la question du public puisse avoir un effet sur le travail d’un artiste, et si oui quels effets ?

Je n’ai pas l’habitude de penser de la même manière que les autres. Donc je vous  dirai ce que je pense être les effets  du public sur mon travail. En tant qu’artiste, le public a très peu d’effet sur moi. Les ½uvres que je réalise viennent du plus profond de moi et j’espère que c’est elles qui font de l’effet au public et pas le contraire.  Mais même si je le dis en plaisantant, il ya beaucoup d’artistes à Accra, et si vous préférez au Ghana, car je connais un peu le Ghana, et le Nigéria bien sur, beaucoup d’artistes  travaillent en fonction de ce qu’ils pensent que le public appréciera,  c’est ca que le public va aimer, donc c’est ca que l’on va faire, et c’est ainsi qu’ils travaillent pour le public. Bon, moi  j’ai voyagé au Togo, au Bénin, en Cote d’Ivoire et certains des artistes rencontrés là bas me dérangeaient pour me dire «  oh ca c’est le genre de travaux qu’aiment les étrangers, les français ». Dans mon cas, non je ne veux pas de cela. Le travail que je fais est pour moi, c’est ce que j’aime faire et ce que je fais, et j’espère que cela aura un effet sur le public.

Ce n’est pas votre cas, mais comment expliquez vous le fait que certains artistes essaient tellement de plaire au marché de l’art et particulièrement au marché occidental, y’a t-il une raison spéciale?
Ce n’est pas mon cas comme je viens de le dire, mais c’est vrai que certains  artiste et en particuliers les plus jeunes font cela : ils cherchent à impressionner le public pour vendre leurs ½uvres. Ca arrive même si, je le répète, ce n’est pas mon cas. Mais si vous me le demandez, je vous dirai que pour eux c’est une question de survie, ils doivent survivre.  &